Curse

Schnellburg · Dec 10, 2009, 09:33 PM // 21:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axeman002

im with you all the way on this SF debate and i give credit where credit is due ..but..... before the VS farm (one of the first to use perma regularly) onyx and diamonds were about 3-4k which wasnt as bad back then, so in essence we made them worthless...i dont say 'we' as in sins...but as high end weapon farmers.

High end dungeon farmers in general did this. I know some weekends I would so enough dungeon runs with my guild/alliance, that i would have close to a stack of diamonds/onyx. The fact of the matter is that yes, SF is extremely efficient, and allowed people to participate in elite areas with little problems. Sins were better farms then Monks/Rits/Warriors/Eles/any other class could of been, and that is where the hate stems from. People refused to give up their favorite farming builds/only farming builds they could run, and not jump on the band wagon and farm like the rest of us.

In the end, it was the same people who cried out Ursan was too powerful, and now they are saying Shadow Form is too powerful. Do you even realize its hard to be a perma at times? Go do a full quad DoA run, and tell me how easy it is to sliver/trench tank. Stop saying being a Perma is easy, and learn the runs. They are actually quite fun, and sometimes challenging. But sadly they won't because Shadow Form is getting changed.

All it takes is a few village idiots to complain about something and the people who are too weak to form their own decisions just fall in line behind them. That is what happened here.

Bryant Again · Dec 10, 2009, 09:40 PM // 21:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golgotha

I'm curious. Most people against Shadow From still have no issue with farming itself, rather the extreme efficiency SF provides to the farming community. What causes you to be so against farming? Simply because areas are designed in a certain fashion?

I don't really believe that one skillbar should be able to conquer six. If my one dude can defeat numerous dudes that something is wrong.

It's not just in the skill, either. Soooo many enemy mobs not only have poor builds but poorly designed team builds with only like one or two different classes.

Schnellburg · Dec 10, 2009, 09:45 PM // 21:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

I don't really believe that one skillbar should be able to conquer six. If my one dude can defeat numerous dudes that something is wrong.

It's not just in the skill, either. Soooo many enemy mobs not only have poor builds but poorly designed team builds with only like one or two different classes.

How is that Shadow Form's fault? It's not, its called poor Enemy Design.

Yelling @ Cats · Dec 10, 2009, 09:52 PM // 21:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schnellburg

How is that Shadow Form's fault? It's not, its called poor Enemy Design.

Yes, which is why the current PvE version of Shadow Form is the same as the current PvP version of Shadow Form.

Schnellburg · Dec 10, 2009, 09:55 PM // 21:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yelling @ Cats

Yes, which is why the current PvE version of Shadow Form is the same as the current PvP version of Shadow Form.

Try again, PvE Shadow Form, and PvP Shadow Form are different, as PvP you can't maintain it. And before you can say your invincible, he was talking in terms of PvE, as was I. You can run a blank skill bar in PvE and still win, is that overpowered too?

Siirius Black · Dec 10, 2009, 10:16 PM // 22:16

Unfortunately, the people complaining about this skill about that skill all the time gives the impression that the whole community is supporting a change.

Anet should have made a quick poll as to how many actually wanted SF nerfed. then they will probably realized that there where only a few compared to the whole GW community.

Too bad that the squeaky wheel gets the grease all the time. It's a shame really having SF nerfed, since most of my friends including me are here mostly trying to farm or do new things with what is left of GW. Now at this point like the above poster, We dont want to spend 3 hrs doing something like clearing UW or FOW.

Daft Shifty · Dec 10, 2009, 10:18 PM // 22:18

oh, because monetary wealth IS what this game is about.... belly laugh, AHAHAHAHA!!! and your estimates are way off... UW might take 1.5 hours for a good bala team... FoW in 45 min, DoA maybe four hours or so.... jesus, the game isn't designed to have teams with practiacally invincible chars. it deducts from the value of other classes.

Yelling @ Cats · Dec 10, 2009, 10:19 PM // 22:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Siirius Black

Unfortunately, the people complaining about this skill about that skill all the time gives the impression that the whole community is supporting a change.

Anet should have made a quick poll as to how many actually wanted SF nerfed. then they will probably realized that there where only a few compared to the whole GW community.

And I'm sure the majority would support ANet sending out 250 ectos to all active accounts, along with 5000 fame.

What's your point again?

Schnellburg · Dec 10, 2009, 10:20 PM // 22:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daft Shifty

oh, because monetary wealth IS what this game is about.... belly laugh, AHAHAHAHA!!! and your estimates are way off... UW might take 1.5 hours for a good bala team... FoW in 45 min, DoA maybe four hours or so.... jesus, the game isn't designed to have teams with practiacally invincible chars. it deducts from the value of other classes.

Then why was shadow form introduced? Maybe Anet wanted it that way, and they did let it run its course. So in theory maybe Anet know what they were doing when they introduced Celerities and GoS.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yelling @ Cats

And I'm sure the majority would support ANet sending out 250 ectos to all active accounts, along with 5000 fame.

What's your point again?

His point is that Anet would of realized that it was only a fraction of the community that wasn't a fan of Shadow Form. Not an overwhelming majority that people make it seem like.

Daft Shifty · Dec 10, 2009, 10:26 PM // 22:26

clearly, Anet didn't see the correllation between GoS DP and SF... it not a hard thing to miss.

Grj · Dec 10, 2009, 10:33 PM // 22:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Siirius Black

We dont want to spend 3 hrs doing something like clearing UW or FOW.

If the rewards are so bad or take too much time for these areas why do people bother doing them?

Stop with the excuses where are people's suggestions/threads to improve the rewards for these areas? Exactly... but everyone of these people roll into a thread like this to defend shadow form till the death...

So game balance can be thrown out the window as long as people can get a reward that apparently isn't worth playing for but its justified when there's an easymode button to cut the time down to obtain it?

Golgotha · Dec 10, 2009, 10:39 PM // 22:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Drunkard

Because the areas that are supposed to be completed by teams can be completed faster by a single permasin (or two in some cases), and that some areas are created with invinci-tanks in mind remove the "diversity" part of the game. Oh, and the fact that they've trashed other efficient farming builds in the past but see nerfing SF as "bad for the game."

I don't understand this reply. I was simply asking why they're against farming in general, not the use of SF in farming.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

I don't really believe that one skillbar should be able to conquer six. If my one dude can defeat numerous dudes that something is wrong.

It's not just in the skill, either. Soooo many enemy mobs not only have poor builds but poorly designed team builds with only like one or two different classes.

There will always be areas where a single build can dominate a mixed group just by the nature of skill synergy. Since you can plan ahead for the mobs in a specific area, it's easy to design a skillbar to shut them down. There's no way to combat this other than to complete nuke most of the skills in the game or create random mobs. A static world simply leaves too much planning ahead, allowing specialized builds rather than a balanced that would be required in "unknown" situations.

The biggest issue I have with mobs are that even when they have numerous professions involved they rarely, if ever, synergize well together. Take Spellbreaker or Shadow Form for example, both are very easily negated by a single creature if built right. Yet these both are incredibly efficient throughout the world. 55 monks have had pop-up mobs to neutralize them, in some areas where they weren't that profitable, yet there have been no mobs designed to combat the current metas that are vastly more profitable.

Gill Halendt · Dec 10, 2009, 11:56 PM // 23:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by My Inner Ninja

I don't envy your high end items, your extraordinary titles, glowing personalities, [lowercase-UPPERCASE] guild tags, and exclusive invitation only swareys and think tanks >.>

So why are you farming some of the most expensive items in the game with your Perma? So you can feel as "leet" as those you don't envy?

Anyway. People always talk about rewards here, items there. Has any of you ever tried PLAYING the game just for the sake of it?

I get onyx gemstones from dungeon chests every time. So, who cares? I've had fun with my friends playing a dungeon, the monetary reward just being a plus. That means much to me.

Fun. The sole purpose of videogames: playing, having fun, you know... And no, I don't think rushing in greed with this monkey-playstyle is fun, but that's just me, what do I know. Play your game, I'll play mine. Thank God my game just won't collapse after a nerf.

Taking shortcuts is just a me-too attitude, so it takes less effort to be as nasty and unpleasant as those everyone keeps saying they don't envy. Yet they just want to look and feel like them, otherwise they won't be farming, will they? An equalizer, indeed. Shame it levels everyone to this pretty low level.

You like perma? Do it as long as it's still possible. Like it or not, that's not the way the game was conceived, so if the developers nerf it, I see nothing unexpected coming. For those who supported it up to now, it was great fun while it lasted, that should be enough.

Yelling @ Cats · Dec 11, 2009, 12:00 AM // 00:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gill Halendt

So why are you farming some of the most expensive items in the game with your Perma? So you can feel as "leet" as those you don't envy?

Anyway. People always talk about rewards here, items there. Has any of you ever tried PLAYING the game just for the sake of it?

I get onyx gemstones from dungeon chests every time. So, who cares? I've had fun with my friends playing a dungeon, the monetary reward just being a plus. That means much to me.

Fun, you know. The sole purpose of videogames: playing, having fun, you know... And no, I don't think rushing in greed, this monkey-style of play is fun, but that's just me, what do I know. Play your game, I'll play mine. Thank God my game just won't collapse after a nerf.

Taking shortcuts is just a me-too attitude, so it takes less effort to be as nasty and unpleasant as those everyone keeps saying they don't envy. Yet they just want to look and feel like them, otherwise they won't be farming, will they? An equalizer, indeed. Shame it levels everyone to this pretty low level.

You like perma? Do it as long as it's still possible. Like it or not, that's not the way the game was conceived, so if the developers nerf it, I see nothing unexpected coming. For those who supported it up to now, it was great fun while it lasted, that should be enough.

Great post.

It's amazing how so many people are butthurt, and worshiping a post filled with insults because it agrees with them. I mean...really? Everyone is fapping over the age old "lol you are a loser that lives in your parent's basement" insult?

I enjoyed how you pointed out the irony in his post though, while keeping your post relatively clean. Good job.

BoxOfCox · Dec 11, 2009, 12:03 AM // 00:03

How you morons can even bring yourselves to argue over whether INVINCIBILITY is detrimental to a video game is beyond me.

Yelling @ Cats · Dec 11, 2009, 12:09 AM // 00:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoxOfCox

How you morons can even bring yourselves to argue over whether INVINCIBILITY is detrimental to a video game is beyond me.

Because it makes it easier for everyone to get good stuff!

Don't you know anything?

Golgotha · Dec 11, 2009, 12:10 AM // 00:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoxOfCox

How you morons can even bring yourselves to argue over whether INVINCIBILITY is detrimental to a video game is beyond me.

And once again, I point out that it's not the skill itself that is so powerful but rather that the mobs aren't armed with the current skills able to counteract it. Hint: it is easily disabled, with a simple, lone core skill. Heck, my old Monk hero build can shut it down. That's hardly invincibility.

Both sides are exaggerating way too much. Shadow Form is neither the savior that proponents label it, nor is it the cancer the anti-SF crowd paints it as. It's a skill, that is powerful but made even more powerful due to Anet's inability to adjust mob tactics or skills to combat it in a way they've done in the past for meta builds.

Yelling @ Cats · Dec 11, 2009, 12:14 AM // 00:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golgotha

And once again, I point out that it's not the skill itself that is so powerful but rather that the mobs aren't armed with the current skills able to counteract it. Hint: it is easily disabled, with a simple, lone core skill. Heck, my old Monk hero build can shut it down. That's hardly invincibility.

This!

Every every monster in the game should have Well of the Profane. How is that unreasonable?

Golgotha · Dec 11, 2009, 12:20 AM // 00:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yelling @ Cats

This!

Every every monster in the game should have Well of the Profane. How is that unreasonable?

Firstly, that's not the skill I'm referencing. Secondly, thanks for proving my original point further.

This is poor logic. Why should every monster in the game be able to counter a skill? That's inane thinking. You'd be better off removing the skill from the game entirely -- and you'd most likely be for that based on your illogical argument.

You simply do as Anet has done before -- arm mobs or create pop-ups in the most profitable areas to combat the farming meta, which happens to now be Shadow Form. This would include, but not be limited to, dungeons, UW, FoW and other elite areas. It is a simple solution. Guess what? That same skill would combat the other farming metas just as well.

How a single skill draws such ire to drive people like yourself to frothing, irrational hatred is mind boggling.

Yelling @ Cats · Dec 11, 2009, 12:22 AM // 00:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golgotha

Firstly, that's not the skill I'm referencing. Secondly, thanks for proving my original point further.

Then please, what core skill does your hero monk use to counter it?